John Robbins Interview

John Robbins
Interviewed by Gavin J. Grant

John Robbins is the author of the July/August 2001 Book Sense 76 pick, The Food Revolution: How Your Diet Can Help Save Your Life and Our World. He is also author of Diet For a New America -- How Your Food Choices Affect Your Health, Happiness, and The Future of Life on Earth; The Awakened Heart -- Meditations on Finding Harmony in a Changing World; and Reclaiming our Health -- Exploding the Medical Myth and Embracing the Source of True Healing.

Robbins, the only son of the founder of the Baskin-Robbins ice cream empire, chose to walk away from the immense wealth it represented to "...pursue the deeper American Dream...the dream of a society at peace with its conscience because it respects and lives in harmony with all life forms. A dream of a society that is truly healthy, practicing a wise and compassionate stewardship of a balanced ecosystem."

He is the recipient of the Rachel Carson Award, the Albert Schweitzer Humanitarian Award, and the Peace Abbey's Courage of Conscience Award.

Robbins founded EarthSave International, an organization dedicated to healthy food choices, preservation of the environment, and a more compassionate world. He lives with his family outside Santa Cruz, California. The Robbins' offices and home are powered entirely by solar electricity.

BookSense.com: This isn't your first book on food...why did you find it necessary to write The Food Revolution?

John Robbins: I had no idea, while writing Diet For a New America, that it would sell more than 1 million copies. I never suspected that I would receive 75,000 letters from people who read the book or who heard me speak about its message. And even if I had known how widely the book would be read, and how deeply it would impact the course of many people's lives, I don't think I could ever have imagined that it might help to impact choices on a larger scale. In the five years immediately following the book's publication, beef consumption in the United States dropped nearly 20 percent.

But in the last few years there has been a backlash. Fad diet books have sold millions of copies telling people they can lose weight and obtain optimum health while eating all the bacon and sausage they want. The U.S. meat industry has managed to divert attention away from the fact that the animals raised in modern factory farms are forced to endure conditions of almost unimaginable cruelty and deprivation. The USDA is proposing to irradiate increasing numbers of foods to combat the deadly food-borne diseases, such as E.coli 0157:H7, that increasingly breed in today's factory farms and slaughterhouses.

Rather than clean up the conditions that produce these pathogens in the first place, the U.S. Meat industry has strongly supported food disparagement laws that make it illegal to criticize perishable food products, and then has used such legislation to sue those who challenge their control over your wallet. They even sued Oprah Winfrey for saying that, based on what she'd learned about meat production in the United States, she was never going to eat another burger.

Meanwhile, the chemical industry has mounted an aggressive campaign to discredit organic food. And without the knowledge or consent of most Americans, two-thirds of the products on our supermarket shelves now contain genetically engineered ingredients.

How did this happen? Are there no private or government organizations watching out for what goes into the food supply?

There are three federal agencies that in different ways regulate genetically engineered crops and foods in the United States: the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), and the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). On this issue, these agencies have performed more like cheerleaders for genetic engineering than impartial judges of a novel and powerful new technology.

All three agencies have set policies that: 1) No public records need be kept of which farms are using genetically engineered seeds; 2) Companies that buy from farmers and sell to food manufacturers and grocery chains do not need to keep genetically engineered crops separate from traditional crops, so purchasers have no way to avoid purchasing genetically engineered foods; and 3) No one needs to label any seeds, crops, or any food products, with information about their genetically engineered origins, so consumers have no way to exercise informed choices in the grocery store.

These policies have two effects: They keep the public unaware of the rapid arrival of transgenic foods onto the family dinner table, and they prevent epidemiologists from tracing health effects, if any appear, because no one will know who has been exposed to novel gene products and who has not.

The government essentially leaves it up to the biotech industry to decide when and whether to consult with the FDA. Any safety testing is done by the industry of their own products, and they are asked to notify the FDA only if they suspect a problem. Thus we have a situation where the very companies that stand to profit are the ones that decide whether or not their products are hazardous.

The debate about animal products and genetically engineered foods, and about their impact on our health and our world, is not going to go away.

As the discussion intensifies, so will the amount of information floating around. Some of it will be valid and rigorously accurate. And some of it will be the product of the public relations machinery of the industries that are selling unhealthy food and exploiting our world. I have written The Food Revolution to provide solid, reliable information for the struggle to achieve a world where the health of people and the Earth community is more important than the profit margins of any industry, where basic human needs take precedence over corporate greed.

What kind of research do you do for a book like this? Is it difficult to find information that is not slanted one way or the other?

The Internet is a marvelous tool for research. Sitting at my desk, I can access the world's medical libraries, and read articles from many of the hundreds of peer-reviewed scientific journals published every month.

What were the biggest surprises when you were investigating this subject?

I have been surprised by how little testing has been performed on the genetically engineered foods that are already being sold and eaten. Most of the testing that has been done has been performed by Monsanto and the other biotech companies, the very ones standing to profit from the immediate and massive employment of this technology. And even they have done no long-term testing. It's a scandal.

What motivations do farmers have for planting genetically engineered foods?

Nearly three-quarters of the genetically engineered crops planted in the world today have been engineered for one characteristic only: to be resistant to weedkillers. These "herbicide-resistant" crops include Monsanto's "Roundup Ready" soybeans and "Roundup Ready" canola. When farmers plant these seeds, they can overspray their fields throughout the growing season with the weedkiller Roundup, killing the weeds but not the soybean or canola crop. It saves them work. On the other hand, it greatly increases the use of these poisons.

With cross-pollination occurring from genetically engineered crops to regular crops, is it still possible to find food that is not genetically engineered?

Almost all the corn grown in the U.S. today, including organic corn, contains at least some genetic pollution from genetically engineered corn pollen. However, organic foods are still the best refuge for consumers seeking to minimize their exposure.

While writing The Food Revolution, did you speak to the men and women working at Monsanto and other companies working on genetically engineered foods? What motivates them to do this work for which there have been no proven advantages (such as increased harvests) and is likely to be harmful in the long term?

Yes, I've spoken to many such people. I remember one man, a Board member of Monsanto. I met him socially, and ended up having a very long, and at times quite heated, conversation with him. It became clear to me that, even though he was a Board member and investor in Monsanto, he didn't know a lot of the things that were going on. He told me that if what I said was true, he was going to resign from the Board. I gave him the documentation and he checked it out and he became furious with the company. He felt that he had been lied to by them.

What can the average person do? Is it a question of writing to politicians, of voting with our wallets, or is something new necessary?

Join the Campaign to Label Genetically Engineered Foods. Give copies of The Food Revolution as gifts to people who matter to you.

What foods have a high percentage of genetically engineered content?

Today, the highest are soy, canola, and corn.

There was a story reprinted in the Utne Reader from In These Times about a Hungarian researcher, Arpad Pusztai, who found that genetically engineered potatoes seemed to cause sickness and poor brain development in rats. When he attempted publication, his employer, Rowett Research Institute -- which had received a $224,000 grant from Monsanto -- fired him and disbanded his research team. Are there any completed studies by independent agencies of the effect of genetically engineered foods?

Pusztai, senior scientist at the Rowett Research Institute in Aberdeen, Scotland, has published 270 scientific papers, and is widely known as the world's leading expert on lectins. When he began conducting experiments in which he fed genetically engineered potatoes to rats, he considered himself a "very enthusiastic supporter" of gene splicing biotechnology. However, the rats fed on genetically modified potatoes showed a variety of unexpected and disturbing changes, including smaller livers, hearts, and brains -- and weakened immune systems. Sadly, the rats' growth was impaired, and some developed tumors and showed significant shrinkage of the brain after only 10 days of eating genetically modified potatoes.

The results of Pusztai's tests were shocking. When he appeared on the British TV program "World In Action," Pusztai was asked, point-blank, whether he personally would eat genetically modified potatoes. "No," he answered, adding that "it is very, very unfair to use our fellow citizens as guinea pigs." For this, Dr. Pusztai was suddenly and inexplicably fired. Only later was it discovered that the Rowett Institute is partially funded by Monsanto.

A subsequent panel of 20 independent scientists from 13 countries, however, confirmed both Dr. Pusztai's data and his findings, and the Institute was forced to reinstate Dr. Pusztai. Meanwhile, a ban was imposed on growing genetically engineered crops in the United Kingdom for three years.

In 2001, the Los Angeles Times published an exposé revealing that Monsanto's own research had raised many questions about the safety of their Roundup Ready soybeans. Remarkably, the FDA did not call for more testing. Since half the soybeans grown in the United States are now Monsanto's Roundup Ready variety, and because soy is contained in such a wide array of processed foods, tens of millions of people are unknowingly eating these experimental foods daily.

What might be expected from consuming soybeans containing higher levels of trypsin inhibitor (a potential allergen that interferes with protein digestion) and lectins? At the very least, slower growth in children. And possibly, unexpected and even dangerous allergic reactions.

Is there any simple change that people can make to eat a healthier diet?

There are many changes people can make that will have tremendous positive results. The Food Revolution is a guide to these changes.

If you worked in a bookshop, what would be on your Staff Picks shelf?

The Food Revolution by John Robbins. Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser. Eat, Drink and Be Healthy by Walter Willett. Journey Through Heartsongs by Mattie J.T. Stepanek.

Do you have a favorite local bookshop?

Yes. I live in Santa Cruz, California, and we are blessed to have several excellent independent bookstores here, including Bookshop Santa Cruz, and Capitola Book Cafe.